NVIDIA
Grid 2.0

Should be linux supported for K1/K2 vGPU (shared) ?

Yes, we need it for current deployment of K1/K2.
No, we are preparing to use linux only with new M60/M6 and new NVidia CCU licenses.
Irrelevant, we do not use linux at all. What is linux ?
Hello. Is Grid 2.0 officially [b]released[/b] (>=15 September 2015) ? Is there any [b]price[/b] information for Tesla M6/M60 ? Will it be available to K1/K2 boards (eg. [b]linux support[/b]) ? What is "[b]NVidia licensing CCU[/b]" (and price) ? Will the [b]NVidia license be required for K1/K2 boards[/b] ? [i]I must pay many $ for K1/K2 (M6/M60) hardware + $ for Citrix Enterprise/Desktop license + new $ for NVIDIA vGPU CCU license ![/i] Thanks for answers, Martin PS: Forward link - actual NVidia CCU license costs are [url]https://gridforums.nvidia.com/default/topic/543/general-discussion/grid-2-0/post/2718/#2718[/url] also published by NVidia (>Dec 2016) - [url]http://www.nvidia.com/object/grid-technology.html[/url] -> [color="orange"][b]NVIDIA GRID Packaging, Pricing & Licensing Guide[/b][/color] Licensing FAQ - [url]http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4183/kw/xenapp%20licensing[/url]
Hello.

Is Grid 2.0 officially released (>=15 September 2015) ?
Is there any price information for Tesla M6/M60 ?
Will it be available to K1/K2 boards (eg. linux support) ?
What is "NVidia licensing CCU" (and price) ?
Will the NVidia license be required for K1/K2 boards ?

I must pay many $ for K1/K2 (M6/M60) hardware + $ for Citrix Enterprise/Desktop license + new $ for NVIDIA vGPU CCU license !

Thanks for answers, Martin

PS: Forward link - actual NVidia CCU license costs are https://gridforums.nvidia.com/default/topic/543/general-discussion/grid-2-0/post/2718/#2718 also published by NVidia (>Dec 2016) - http://www.nvidia.com/object/grid-technology.html -> NVIDIA GRID Packaging, Pricing & Licensing Guide
Licensing FAQ - http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4183/kw/xenapp%20licensing

#1
Posted 09/29/2015 08:47 PM   
Martin, Yes, I have seen the M60 available from at least one source (Dell). We get special educational pricing, so it makes no sense to discuss it here; contact a vendor that sells it now for a quote. My guess is you'll pay quite a bit less than double the price for an M60 vs. a K2, which is not bad given you get 2x the performance and twice as much on-board memory on the M60 vs. the K2. As to concurrent user pricing for XenDesktop/XenApp, it will also depend on your vendor -- a VAR might be able to get you a better price than directly from Citrix. The list price (at least here in the US) is I believe around $500 per seat. To use the GPU other than in passthrough mode, you will indeed require either a paid-for Citrix license, or if you run XenDesktop/XenApp Enterprise or higher versions, the XenServer licenses are [u]free[/u] for those XenServer machines that host the VDIs and will allow full access also to vGPU capabilities. The Microsoft licensing policies are way too complicated to discuss here, but you do need some sort of virtual desktop license for each instance. Again, talking to a qualified sales representative is probably your only hope. It took a team of several of them to help a VAR work it out in our case and at least a couple of weeks. Why Microsoft licensing is so confusing is a question that will probably never be answered! I hope this helps at least a little.
Martin,
Yes, I have seen the M60 available from at least one source (Dell). We get special educational pricing, so it makes no sense to discuss it here; contact a vendor that sells it now for a quote. My guess is you'll pay quite a bit less than double the price for an M60 vs. a K2, which is not bad given you get 2x the performance and twice as much on-board memory on the M60 vs. the K2. As to concurrent user pricing for XenDesktop/XenApp, it will also depend on your vendor -- a VAR might be able to get you a better price than directly from Citrix. The list price (at least here in the US) is I believe around $500 per seat. To use the GPU other than in passthrough mode, you will indeed require either a paid-for Citrix license, or if you run XenDesktop/XenApp Enterprise or higher versions, the XenServer licenses are free for those XenServer machines that host the VDIs and will allow full access also to vGPU capabilities. The Microsoft licensing policies are way too complicated to discuss here, but you do need some sort of virtual desktop license for each instance. Again, talking to a qualified sales representative is probably your only hope. It took a team of several of them to help a VAR work it out in our case and at least a couple of weeks. Why Microsoft licensing is so confusing is a question that will probably never be answered! I hope this helps at least a little.

-=Tobias

#2
Posted 10/02/2015 06:28 AM   
Hello. Thanks for answer but contacting many sales representatives and VAR is time consuming. Is there any public "successful story" with [b]computed price per seat (HW+SW, CAPEX+OPEX)[/b] (for example simple windows VDI desktop without any other application (>=2cpu, >=4gRAM) and for ~20,50,100 seats and for education, public and commercial sector if relevant) ? I read about 90% canceled VDI projects due to financial analysis (HW+SW, CAPEX+OPEX) with new price level of M60 plus new NVidia vGPU CCU license it is getting worse to 99% or not ? I tried to strip down CAPEX (eBay for K1/K2 GPU, thin client raspberry based and opensource) and eliminate OPEX (opensource) but final CAPEX price is equal to standalone PC with equal CPU+GPU power. Thanks for your opinions, Martin
Hello.

Thanks for answer but contacting many sales representatives and VAR is time consuming.

Is there any public "successful story" with computed price per seat (HW+SW, CAPEX+OPEX) (for example simple windows VDI desktop without any other application (>=2cpu, >=4gRAM) and for ~20,50,100 seats and for education, public and commercial sector if relevant) ?

I read about 90% canceled VDI projects due to financial analysis (HW+SW, CAPEX+OPEX) with new price level of M60 plus new NVidia vGPU CCU license it is getting worse to 99% or not ?

I tried to strip down CAPEX (eBay for K1/K2 GPU, thin client raspberry based and opensource) and eliminate OPEX (opensource) but final CAPEX price is equal to standalone PC with equal CPU+GPU power.

Thanks for your opinions, Martin

#3
Posted 10/03/2015 08:38 AM   
[quote="mcerveny"] Will it be available to K1/K2 boards (eg. [b]linux support[/b]) ? [/quote] "GRID VIRTUAL GPU FOR CITRIX XENSERVER Version 352.46, 354.13/RN-06927-001/September 21st, 2015": GRID vGPU with Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7 / CentOS 7 guest VMs is [b]supported on Tesla M60 and M6 [i](only and not on K1/K2)[/i][/b], as a technical preview feature on Citrix XenServer 6.5. (Only preview again!) [quote="mcerveny"] Will the [b]NVidia license be required for K1/K2 boards[/b] ? [/quote] "GRID LICENSING/DU-07757-001/September 2015": NVIDIA GRID K1 and K2 GPUs do [b]not require a [i](NVidia)[/i] license[/b] to run vGPU. Are that features final or it may change in future ? Thanks, Martin
mcerveny said:
Will it be available to K1/K2 boards (eg. linux support) ?


"GRID VIRTUAL GPU FOR CITRIX XENSERVER Version 352.46, 354.13/RN-06927-001/September 21st, 2015": GRID vGPU with Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7 / CentOS 7 guest VMs is supported on Tesla M60 and M6 (only and not on K1/K2), as a technical preview feature on Citrix XenServer 6.5. (Only preview again!)

mcerveny said:
Will the NVidia license be required for K1/K2 boards ?


"GRID LICENSING/DU-07757-001/September 2015": NVIDIA GRID K1 and K2 GPUs do not require a (NVidia) license to run vGPU.

Are that features final or it may change in future ?

Thanks, Martin

#4
Posted 10/03/2015 09:06 AM   
Martin, As I understand it, you need/get a special license for the technical preview that makes it possible to access vGPU functionality. You might want to check the XenServer Dundee technical preview (XS 6.6) specifications in more detail. For the final Dundee release, I am quite sure that the licensing restrictions will still be as I stated above. However, as for the K1 and K2, that's news to me, and so we will have to see what the final licensing will end up being; this would seem like an odd choice to split which GPUs support vGPU functionality and which do not. As to Linux vGPU support for VMs, that should be indeed officially supported in the final release of XenServer 7.
Martin,
As I understand it, you need/get a special license for the technical preview that makes it possible to access vGPU functionality. You might want to check the XenServer Dundee technical preview (XS 6.6) specifications in more detail. For the final Dundee release, I am quite sure that the licensing restrictions will still be as I stated above.
However, as for the K1 and K2, that's news to me, and so we will have to see what the final licensing will end up being; this would seem like an odd choice to split which GPUs support vGPU functionality and which do not. As to Linux vGPU support for VMs, that should be indeed officially supported in the final release of XenServer 7.

-=Tobias

#5
Posted 10/03/2015 04:54 PM   
Hello. I do not need any license for now. I am surprised by new [b]NVidia CCU license[/b] (I also edit previous post to clarify that). There are two new vGPU licenses to pay in this year (new license model for XenServer 6.5 in January and now new license for NVidia). I suppose that this licensing hell effectively kills all VDI projects. Now, I still waiting if anyone from presales people from NVidia or Citrix of VMware can summarize price per seat (see previous question). Thanks, Martin
Hello.

I do not need any license for now. I am surprised by new NVidia CCU license (I also edit previous post to clarify that). There are two new vGPU licenses to pay in this year (new license model for XenServer 6.5 in January and now new license for NVidia). I suppose that this licensing hell effectively kills all VDI projects.

Now, I still waiting if anyone from presales people from NVidia or Citrix of VMware can summarize price per seat (see previous question).

Thanks, Martin

#6
Posted 10/03/2015 05:32 PM   
NVIDIA license? Have not seen that at least with our XS 6.5 SP1 install and GRID K1 and K2 cards running under XenServer/XenApp. I would be very surprised if this was the case for the M6/M60 as the drivers are readily available for download. My guess is the document hasn't been updated yet to reflect the M6/M60 because they are so new. I now see what you mean about the NVIDIA CCU licensing... I found this good blog that talks about the CCU licensing from NVIDIA, which is very new indeed, and I will have to look at this in more detail: http://www.poppelgaard.com/nvidia-grid-2-0 There is also this page from NVIDIA directly: http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-grid-buy.html Let me see if I can get more information on this from someone I know at NVIDIA. Meanwhile, if an NVIDIA employee could address this, it would be something of interest to many of us, in particular prior to any potential purchases.
NVIDIA license? Have not seen that at least with our XS 6.5 SP1 install and GRID K1 and K2 cards running under XenServer/XenApp. I would be very surprised if this was the case for the M6/M60 as the drivers are readily available for download. My guess is the document hasn't been updated yet to reflect the M6/M60 because they are so new.

I now see what you mean about the NVIDIA CCU licensing...

I found this good blog that talks about the CCU licensing from NVIDIA, which is very new indeed, and I will have to look at this in more detail: http://www.poppelgaard.com/nvidia-grid-2-0
There is also this page from NVIDIA directly: http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-grid-buy.html

Let me see if I can get more information on this from someone I know at NVIDIA. Meanwhile, if an NVIDIA employee could address this, it would be something of interest to many of us, in particular prior to any potential purchases.

-=Tobias

#7
Posted 10/03/2015 06:37 PM   
[quote="tjkreidl"] http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-grid-buy.html [/quote] Yes, I found this software after my first post (my first post was based on poppelgaard blog). There is documents inside software bundle: [list] [.]352.46-354.13-nvidia-grid-vgpu-release-notes.pdf[/.] [.]352.46-354.13-nvidia-grid-vgpu-user-guide.pdf[/.] [.][b]352.47-354.13-nvidia-grid-licensing-guide.pdf[/b][/.] [.][b]GRID License Server Release Notes.pdf[/b][/.] [.][b]GRID License Server User Guide.pdf[/b][/.] [/list] It contains following if you buy M60/M6 and does not install "license server" and does not have "valid NVIDIA CCU license acquired": [i]vGPUs that require licensing run at a reduced capability until a license is acquired. Screen resolution is limited to no higher than 1280x1024, frame rate is capped at 3 frames per second, and GPU resource allocations are limited, which will prevent some applications from running correctly. These restrictions are removed once a license is acquired. NVIDIA GRID K1 and K2 GPUs do not require a license to run vGPU. [/i] Martin
tjkreidl said:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-grid-buy.html


Yes, I found this software after my first post (my first post was based on poppelgaard blog). There is documents inside software bundle:
  • 352.46-354.13-nvidia-grid-vgpu-release-notes.pdf
  • 352.46-354.13-nvidia-grid-vgpu-user-guide.pdf
  • 352.47-354.13-nvidia-grid-licensing-guide.pdf
  • GRID License Server Release Notes.pdf
  • GRID License Server User Guide.pdf

It contains following if you buy M60/M6 and does not install "license server" and does not have "valid NVIDIA CCU license acquired":

vGPUs that require licensing run at a reduced capability until a license is acquired. Screen resolution is limited to no higher than 1280x1024, frame rate is capped at 3 frames per second, and GPU resource allocations are limited, which will prevent some applications from running correctly. These restrictions are removed once a license is acquired. NVIDIA GRID K1 and K2 GPUs do not require a license to run vGPU.


Martin

#8
Posted 10/04/2015 09:38 AM   
Thanks for sharing that latest info, Martin. It appears each configuration is different, Virtual PC, Virtual Workstation amd Virtual Workstation - Extended, the last one is need for supporting GPU passthrough. I will contact our vendor to see about getting an idea about pricing. It appears that each connecting virtual machine will take one token when used in vGPU mode whereas if used in GPU passthrough mode (Virtual Workstation - Extended license) it is assigned to the virtual machine, such as a XenApp server, to accomplish this, but it's not clear if that is sufficient for the whole XenApp server or if you need a separate license for each concurrent user connecting via this passthrough server. Why in the world do companies universally make licensing so complicated and fail to provide understandable explanations of licensing procedures? Maybe NVIDIA could come out with some examples of various licensing scenarios, which would be a good start to be able to better relate to this.
Thanks for sharing that latest info, Martin. It appears each configuration is different, Virtual PC, Virtual Workstation amd Virtual Workstation - Extended, the last one is need for supporting GPU passthrough. I will contact our vendor to see about getting an idea about pricing.

It appears that each connecting virtual machine will take one token when used in vGPU mode whereas if used in GPU passthrough mode (Virtual Workstation - Extended license) it is assigned to the virtual machine, such as a XenApp server, to accomplish this, but it's not clear if that is sufficient for the whole XenApp server or if you need a separate license for each concurrent user connecting via this passthrough server.

Why in the world do companies universally make licensing so complicated and fail to provide understandable explanations of licensing procedures? Maybe NVIDIA could come out with some examples of various licensing scenarios, which would be a good start to be able to better relate to this.

-=Tobias

#9
Posted 10/04/2015 01:41 PM   
[quote="mcerveny"] Is Grid 2.0 officially [b]released[/b] (>=15 September 2015) ? [/quote] Yes. [quote="mcerveny"] Is there any [b]price[/b] information for Tesla M6/M60 ? [/quote] This is via the OEM's same as for K1/2 Nivida doesn't sell Tesla direct. [quote="mcerveny"] Will it be available to K1/K2 boards (eg. [b]linux support[/b]) ? [/quote] No - GRID 2.0 is Maxwell (M60/6) only and future architectures. It will not be added to Kepler. If you require Linux or 4K displays in vGPU, it's GRID 2.0 only. [quote="mcerveny"] What is "[b]NVidia licensing CCU[/b]" (and price) ? [/quote] Pricing is via OEM's & VAR's that have relationships with a GRID distributor. Features are licensed for each user (easier to think of this as per running VM though). There are 3 different feature sets so you license based on the features required. Boot a VM, it takes an appropriate license, shut the VM down and it hands the license back. A license is required for passthrough, and will also be required for concurrent users on RDSH type workloads such as XenApp. http://www.nvidia.com/object/grid-technology.html [quote="mcerveny"] Will the [b]NVidia license be required for K1/K2 boards[/b] ? [/quote] No. Licensing is for GRID 2.0 and onwards.
mcerveny said:

Is Grid 2.0 officially released (>=15 September 2015) ?


Yes.

mcerveny said:
Is there any price information for Tesla M6/M60 ?


This is via the OEM's same as for K1/2 Nivida doesn't sell Tesla direct.

mcerveny said:
Will it be available to K1/K2 boards (eg. linux support) ?


No - GRID 2.0 is Maxwell (M60/6) only and future architectures. It will not be added to Kepler. If you require Linux or 4K displays in vGPU, it's GRID 2.0 only.

mcerveny said:
What is "NVidia licensing CCU" (and price) ?


Pricing is via OEM's & VAR's that have relationships with a GRID distributor.

Features are licensed for each user (easier to think of this as per running VM though). There are 3 different feature sets so you license based on the features required. Boot a VM, it takes an appropriate license, shut the VM down and it hands the license back.

A license is required for passthrough, and will also be required for concurrent users on RDSH type workloads such as XenApp.


http://www.nvidia.com/object/grid-technology.html


mcerveny said:
Will the NVidia license be required for K1/K2 boards ?


No. Licensing is for GRID 2.0 and onwards.

Jason Southern, Regional Lead for ProVis Sales - EMEA: NVIDIA Ltd.

#10
Posted 10/05/2015 09:02 AM   
I have a conference call with Dell and NVIDIA in a few minutes and will report back further information. The exact licensing model is still in the works, above all, how GPU passthrough will be dealt with differently from vGPU configurations. Full details are expected to be released in about a week. There will apparently be special educational pricing, as well.
I have a conference call with Dell and NVIDIA in a few minutes and will report back further information.

The exact licensing model is still in the works, above all, how GPU passthrough will be dealt with differently from vGPU configurations. Full details are expected to be released in about a week. There will apparently be special educational pricing, as well.

-=Tobias

#11
Posted 10/05/2015 04:26 PM   
[quote="Jason_Southern"][quote="mcerveny"] Will it be available to K1/K2 boards (eg. [b]linux support[/b]) ? [/quote] No - GRID 2.0 is Maxwell (M60/6) only and future architectures. It will not be added to Kepler. If you require Linux or 4K displays in vGPU, it's GRID 2.0 only. [/quote] Why NVidia does not support linux guest for K1/K2 vGPU sharing (there should not be any technical problem to support it for K1/K2) ? Thanks for answer, Martin
Jason_Southern said:
mcerveny said:
Will it be available to K1/K2 boards (eg. linux support) ?

No - GRID 2.0 is Maxwell (M60/6) only and future architectures. It will not be added to Kepler. If you require Linux or 4K displays in vGPU, it's GRID 2.0 only.

Why NVidia does not support linux guest for K1/K2 vGPU sharing (there should not be any technical problem to support it for K1/K2) ?

Thanks for answer, Martin

#12
Posted 10/06/2015 09:30 PM   
Am confused as I see general Linux GRID drivers available for download on the NVDIA site.
Am confused as I see general Linux GRID drivers available for download on the NVDIA site.

-=Tobias

#13
Posted 10/06/2015 11:53 PM   
[quote="tjkreidl"]Am confused as I see general Linux GRID drivers available for download on the NVDIA site.[/quote] I think that this is NOT vGPU driver this is PCI pass-through driver. Matching compiled vGPU drivers are inside vGPU package of hypervisor. [i]NVIDIA-GRID-vGPU-XenServer-6.5-346.68-348.27.zip[/i] [b]Grid 1.x hypervisor/host packages:[/b] NVIDIA-vgx-xenserver-6.5-346.68.x86_64.iso NVIDIA-vgx-xenserver-6.5-346.68.x86_64.rpm [b]Grid 1.x guest drivers (no linux support) [/b]348.27_grid_win8_win7_64bit_english.exe 348.27_grid_win8_win7_english.exe [i]NVIDIA-GRID-vGPU-XenServer-6.5-352.46-354.13.zip [/i] [b]Grid 2.0 hypervisor/host packages: [/b]NVIDIA-vGPU-xenserver-6.5-352.46.x86_64.iso NVIDIA-vGPU-xenserver-6.5-352.46.x86_64.rpm [b]Grid 2.0 guest drivers (with "limited" linux support): [/b]354.13_grid_win10_64bit_international.exe 354.13_grid_win10_international.exe 354.13_grid_win8_win7_64bit_international.exe 354.13_grid_win8_win7_international.exe NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-352.47-grid.run M.C>
tjkreidl said:Am confused as I see general Linux GRID drivers available for download on the NVDIA site.

I think that this is NOT vGPU driver this is PCI pass-through driver.
Matching compiled vGPU drivers are inside vGPU package of hypervisor.

NVIDIA-GRID-vGPU-XenServer-6.5-346.68-348.27.zip

Grid 1.x hypervisor/host packages:
NVIDIA-vgx-xenserver-6.5-346.68.x86_64.iso
NVIDIA-vgx-xenserver-6.5-346.68.x86_64.rpm

Grid 1.x guest drivers (no linux support)
348.27_grid_win8_win7_64bit_english.exe
348.27_grid_win8_win7_english.exe

NVIDIA-GRID-vGPU-XenServer-6.5-352.46-354.13.zip

Grid 2.0 hypervisor/host packages:
NVIDIA-vGPU-xenserver-6.5-352.46.x86_64.iso
NVIDIA-vGPU-xenserver-6.5-352.46.x86_64.rpm

Grid 2.0 guest drivers (with "limited" linux support):
354.13_grid_win10_64bit_international.exe
354.13_grid_win10_international.exe
354.13_grid_win8_win7_64bit_international.exe
354.13_grid_win8_win7_international.exe
NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-352.47-grid.run

M.C>
Attachments

vgpu_drivers.png

#14
Posted 10/07/2015 07:26 AM   
[quote="mcerveny"][quote="tjkreidl"]Am confused as I see general Linux GRID drivers available for download on the NVDIA site.[/quote] I think that this is NOT vGPU driver this is PCI pass-through driver. M.C>[/quote] Correct. Passthrough is available in GRID 1.2 ( k1/2) vGPU for Linux is GRID 2.0 only.
mcerveny said:
tjkreidl said:Am confused as I see general Linux GRID drivers available for download on the NVDIA site.

I think that this is NOT vGPU driver this is PCI pass-through driver.

M.C>


Correct.

Passthrough is available in GRID 1.2 ( k1/2)
vGPU for Linux is GRID 2.0 only.

Jason Southern, Regional Lead for ProVis Sales - EMEA: NVIDIA Ltd.

#15
Posted 10/07/2015 09:28 AM   
Scroll To Top

Add Reply